Infamia a Italia

[Sergyck]

Vergonzoso, denigrante... no tengo palabras después de ver lo que han hecho con mis italianos en los nuevos libros, me río yo del artículo de Phill que comentaba como los cambios de puntos apenas afectarían a las listas de ejército que cada uno tenía... En fin, que mi lista de carros de 1500 puntos de italianos ahora a pasado a ser de 1705 ¿como se come eso? ¿Tan buenos somos los italianos? porque lo único que han hecho ha sido mejorar un poco el blindaje del L6/40 a costa de subirlos bastantes a puntos, el resto nada, siguen igual pero a más puntos, quitando los semovente 75 que se salvan de la escalada de puntos.

Como pille a estos neozelandeses...

[bertz]

jejeje, cuando he leído el topic pensaba que estabas hablando del cabezazo de Zidane

buf, 205 puntos de clavo son unos cuantos, no te habrás equivocado con las cuentas?? No me ha parecido leer una subida tan radical en el foro de FoW, pero si es así, no dejes la oportunidad de darles caña

[Sergyck]

Me temo que las cuentas son así de claras... la vida ha periddo parte de su sentido para mí, ¿como les diré ahora a mis muchachos que no puedo sacarlos a todos, que debo abandonar a parte de ellos?, ¿como podré mirarles a los ojos y decirles que la guerra terminó para ellos?.
Nunca olvidaremos esta afrenta

[DemonioVolador]

Es muy triste, en serio....Si os fijais bien todos los ejercitos tiene cosas bastante mas baratas, los italianos seguimos igual en casi todo, menos en los cañones gordos, que suben 20000 puntos cada uno. Me da la sensacion de que han cogido el avanti savoia, han recortado todo lo de pintar e historias y lo han pegado ahi a lo bestia...Mientras a los alemanes les bajan la artilleria 90 puntos a los italianos se la bajan 30...es que es triste...Yo por suerte puedo meter un peloton mas de morteros, pero los tanques han salido de culo. Los M41 ahora valen 60 puntos cada uno...6 tanquetas ahora valen 200 puntazos (2 1 1 AT 5 a 40cm....triste verdad?). Claro, les pegamos un repaso a los alemanes que total como no tienen opciones ni reglas especiales hay que hacerlos mas baratos que los italianos, que tienen la chufa de 8 millones de bayonetas....

Mañana les monto follon en el foro...me molesta muchisimo tener que sacar 35 euros de donde no tengo para comprarme un libro (ojo que es un libro, no una caja de tanques no no) y que tenga mas de 300 erratas (segun algunos ya hay creo que 437 erratas encontradas) y que este mas desequilibrado que nunca. Yo gano 3 morteros que son reluctant trained la mitad de las veces mientras que los alemanes pueden meter 3 panzers mas??? los americanos pueden meter ahora 5 lees mas?? los britanicos?? a bueno esto ya no, ellos ahora pegan menos y por mas (morteros medios (llegan 80 ))


En fin triste triste...espero que hagan algo mas aparte de poner trozos del libro corregido en la web...por que yo paso de empezar a recortar y pegar todo esto en mis libros

Aqui os pongo el millar de erratas de todos los libros

Hi guys,
we wait the corrections from BF but we could list mistakes :

Rules V.2 :

- p.21 : Sending Transports to the Rear : "You may remove empty Transport teams from the table at the end of any movement step." and THEN in the box below it states: "You may remove transport teams at the end of the movement step."
The boxes are summaries not the true letter of the rules, see page 3 of the mini-rule book.(Wayne)

- p.45 : Man-packed Gun Teams : Italic Text for Man-packed Gun Teams wrote: "When allocating hits from weapons with FP 5+ or 6, Man-packed Gun teams can be treated as either Infantry teams or Gun at the target Player's discretion for the Shooting at Mixed Platoon rule" and Blocked Text wrote:"Man-packed Gun teames cannot be distinguished from Infantry Teams when allocating hits from FP 5+ or 6 weapons"
The boxes are summaries not the true letter of the rules, see page 3 of the mini-rule book. (Wayne)

- p.58 : Awkward layout : "Tank teams with awkward layouts cannot shoot their main weapon in the Shooting Step" add "if it moved this turn"
yes this is wrong and has been fixed for the full size book.(Wayne)

- p.80 : refers to push into enemy positions "on page 80", should be 83.

- p.163 : Quick Reference - Break Off - says "All teams move 4" when it should be full move. (?)

- What is the AT rating of Gun Teams in an assault?

- Where the hell are the rules for minefields / fortifications ?

- Where are the rules for radio-controlled demolition carriers ?

- Where are the rules for one man turrets ?

- What is the Recon Command Distance?

Afrika :
British :
- The Royal Horse Artillery is Fearless Veteran ( Wayne )

- Characteristics for Black Bumbar
- Characteristics for captured AT guns on Marmon Harringtons
- British rifles have Infantry tanks explained but according to the support options aren't allowed them.
- Australian/NZ Divisional Cav doesnt have a type of company, it should be Tank (?)
- NZ Rifle companys can't have tank platoons as support their list is MG platoons, Heavy Mortar Platoons, Recce Platoons, Commando Platoons and Divisional Support Platoons.(?)
- M3 stuarts--for the brits they have "No HE" (?)
- The Churchill 3 has not the "No HE" rule (?)
- The Indian Special Rule is "North-West Frontier". However, this slightly differs from "Mountaineers" in the main rules. Which one is correct ?
- p.159 : We can now take 0 to 3 recon platoons for American armoured infantry and armoured companys. To the best of my knowledge there was only one such recon platoon per battalion not 3. (?)
- p.207 : The CS tanks often have "CS smoke" as a direct fire attribute. Is this identical to plain "smoke" ?
- p.207 : Valentine III has exactly the same stats as the Valentine II. I would have expected the Val III to have "Tally Ho" or ROF 3 for it's 2 pdr. (?)
- p.209 : no entry for British SMG teams even though they are available to commando platoons (page 124).
- p.209 : light mortar team : Does not have smoke any more ?
- the platoon details still says that the captured AT gun upgrade reduces top armour to 0... but it's already 0 in the V2 lists ?
- No captured AT gun details on the British arsenal listing .
- British Artillery batteries seem to be incorrectly costed. Despite significant changes to British Artillery (25pdr FP increased to 5+, special bombardments only if 6+ guns fire) the point costs are suspiciously exactly the same as before. Also German and Italian batteries can use 25pdrs at much cheaper costs than the Brits (220 and 230 points respectively).
So if we assume that the cost for a British single troop 25pdr RA battery should be slightly more than a German/Italian one (to account for the extra battery commander), say 240 points, and the proportional cost for a full battery stays the same, then the cost for a full 8 gun battery should be 395 points. A LOT less than 445 points. (?)

United States :
- page 168--U.S. Rifle Company Intelligence & Recon Platoons no longer have the gray box denoting them as Recon Platoons--error or intentional change?"
- US Armored Mortars have smoke bombardment (?)
- US SP AA section it still lets you replace the jeep with a halftrack for +10pts even though there no longer is a command vehicle in the diagram
- the US truckborne company (alt armored infantry organization) be counted as mech. inf. or an inf. company (?)
- US Airborne Pack Howitzers no longer have smoke (?)
- page 211 : US 75mm pack howitzer : doesn't have smoke bombardment even though the identical weapon in the T30 and M8 HMC do have smoke bombardments.

Italian :
- page 75 : One to three Bersaglieri, Bersaglieri Machine-gun, or Bersaglieri ANti-tank Platoons. (no "One Bersaglieri platoon, and One to Three Bersa, MG, or AT platoons" Oupss (Phil)

- Italian Fucilieri 47/32 AT Platoons : 110 pts (?)
- Italians get Priority air at the same price as german limited air (?)
- Lancia da 90 is a heavy AA gun(?)
- Italian AB41 for 2 costs 76. Seems odd given that every other cost is a multiple of 5 (?)
- Italian Carri Company, does it have a Weapons platoon choice or not? Pg73 says not, pg74 has Semovente's listed as Weapons.
- Semovente 75/18's are listed in the grey box on page 73 as a Support platoon. Which also says there are no Weapon platoons available to the Carris. However, they are listed on page 74 as a Weapon platoon. (?)
- page 205: R35 is NOT listed as a slow tank ?
- p. 206 Italian Air supprt headings seem to be one off ie limited sporadic vice priority limited

German :
- Page 27-28: Schurzen now available to PzIIIL/M/N in Tunisia (?)
- Page 30. The pioneer weapons platoon for panzerkompanie gets a command schwimmwagen ?
- p.35 : Heavy Inf Gun Plt. Is that +5 or -5 to convert to towed guns ?
- p.58 : Div AT Plt : Pak40 now available to desert Div (15 pz etc), not just 10Pz & Sicily/Italy ?
- no stats for rommels vehicle (?)
- P.204 : Inf Team light mortar FP 5+ (?)
- StuG F/8's in Afrika cost 305 points (?)
- No line for Assault Rifle Teams (?)
- Captured 25 pounders in use by the Italian's have turntables, whereas the ones captured by the Germans seem to have misplaced their turntables (?)
- The Pioneer Platoon taken as a weapons platoon for an Panzerkompanie doesn't have any notes on flamethrowers. Were they meant to not be allowed flamethrowers?
- Is Rommel classed as a Warrior Tank Team? Or a Warrior Transport Team?
- 15cm sIG33 page 202-3: Towed version and Grille has AT13, Bison has AT8. Towed sIG33 now have HEAT ammo in the desert but not when it is mounted in a Bison ?
- DAK captured 25pounders +10 points for turntable (?)

Missions :
- p.200 : bottom blurb on DFA in tourneys, last paragraph amend 'Diving Eagles player' to 'attacker'.

Ostfront :

- p.2, first sentence "... light of 3 June 1941..." Should be "22 June" (?)
- page 69, column 3, paragraph 2. "In June 1944, the Soviets started an all-out offensive with two GUards Tank Armies...". Actually it should read two Armies (or Rifle Armies - made up primarily of Rifle Corps/Divisions, plus Separate Tank Regiments and one Separate Tank Brigade for about 200-220 tanks total) - the 21st and the 23rd - certainly not "Guards Tank Armies". (?)

Soviet :
- The Guards Rocket Mortars are Fearless trained (Wayne)
- Shturmovik are flying tank (Wayne)
- There are two opposing costs for katyusha sections... (in the 'model army' on the inside of the front cover and in the rule section itself) which is correct?
The inside front cover is an error.(Phil)
- page 165, 0-1 tankovy companies organised as per page 140; SHOULD read pp 140, 141 and 144. (Wayne)

- Soviet Scout teams - no entry in summary.
- Strelkovy Battalion page 161 "the machine-gun companies of a strelkovy battalion are organised like those on page 148" read : "p.146."
- All SUs have "hull mounted" guns except the SU-152 which does not have the "hull mounted" trait. Is this intentional or a mistake?
- In the Soviet lists the 45mm Obr 1937 is the name used, and in the arsenal they have it down as the 45 mm obr 1938.
- The 45mm obr 1942 gun is now AT8 rather than AT9 ?
- T-70 obr 43s do not appear in the summary sheets.
- The T-70 Obr 42 is repeated, but the second one has wide tracks.
- the Soviet Churchill III not get Protected Ammo or ROF 3 on their 6pdr gun, when the exact same tank in the British Briefing in Africa gets both of those (?)
- Soviet Storm Groups have gone back to using the (incorrect) discount of -90 pts per group. This was corrected in the Stalingrad update to -45 pts per group. With the Storm Group points changes this now makes them less than half price when used in a Guards list. (?)
- p151. The Heavy Anti-Tank Company for a Rota Razvedki lists the price increase to make them trained as +35pts per platoon. This seems to be based on the old price for ZIS-3s which were 100pts per platoon. Now that they're only 70pts per platoon (since they can't bombard anymore) the price increase should be +20 or +25pts per platoon. (?)

German :
- P.39 Light Anti-tank Gun Platoons 2.8 cm sPzB41 cost the same as 3.7cm PaK36 (?)
- p.41 : What is the correct Support Choices list for Aufklarung ? The current list is incorrectly copied across from the Panzer Company list.
- - No mention of the Assualt special rule for Pzgrenadiers of the Aufklarung company but is in the Afrika.
- P.189 : Inf Team light mortar FP 5+ (?)
- StuG F/8s cost 355 points (?)
- The range of the German 7.5cm Pack 38/97 is now listed as 32" not 24'' (?)
- Panzer Pioneers are now R/MG teams but pay the old MG prices.(?)
- The support choices for an Aufklarung company is odd and looks like a cut and paste error. I take Auf platoons as combat platoons, but can get more in the support section! Looks like the PZ gren support list to me.(?)
- Can I upgrade the Nebelwurfer observers to 253/254 half tracks or even PzII OP tanks (?)
- Sd Kfz 251/7C (Pioneer) half-track has "Assault Bridge" listed in Equipment and Notes, but I can't find a description of "Assault Bridge" anywhere in Ostfront or the new rulebook.
- page 30/31
HQ section "WITH":
3 kfz 7/1 165 points
2 kfz 7/1 110 points
well its got the HQ as an ack ack unit itself-a command 7/1 quad
so buying an HQ unit with either 3 or 2 gives you that # of ackacks plus the HQ is one so this is wrong ? right?....cause I only got 2 quads and my old command car, I guessing if I buy the 110 point option, Im getting one ackack as a co and one ackack as a unit under command-not one ack ack as CO and another 2 to command...or maybe we do get an HQ quad with 2 quads all for 110 points ?
- p.31 : If you purchase 3 SdKfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) as a weapons platoon (Anti-Aircraft Platoon), they cost you 165 points.
If you purchase them as a supports choice (Motorised Anti-Aircraft Platoon) 3 SdKfz 10/5s (90) and then pay the upgrade costs to SdKfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm)(20x3=60), they only cost you 150 points. Why?

Italian :
- no stats for the solothurn AT rifles (?)
- Italian Fucilieri 47/32 AT Platoons : 115 pts( ?)
- Characteristics for Brixia Light mortars
- Brixa Light Mortars now fire a bombardment (?)
- Characteristics for 47's
- p99. Italian Fucilieri using a captured T-34..."You could field this as part of a Compagnia Fucilieri by taking a Looted Panzer Platoon from page 86 of Stalingrad." (?)
- The Fucilieri list reveals that they can buy Sporadic Air Ju-87s for 100 points, exactly the same price Italians are supposed to pay for "Limited" air from the same plane in the Afrika book. (?)
Hungarian :
- pg. 193 :The range for the 10.5cm leFH18 should be 72", not 80" (?)

LFTF IV questions :

RULES

Deploiement :
- Would it seem rational that you be REQUIRED to deploy at the lowest POTENTIAL level of training when first deploying your forces?
The 8 million bayonets rule comes after all deployment. If you deploy at a higher training level and roll a lower trainging level then you have deployed OUT OF COMMAND.
For troops with variable Skill ratings, you may deploy as if they had the best they could roll. (Phil)

Independant team :
p.28 : Independent Team's Transport. Exactly which transport belongs to which IT is not defined in the intel books. Does the player choose? Can you change this during the game? ex. US Ar Rifle Company HQ - two IT's, two transports. Which goes with which?

-When the "non gtg" independent team joins the gtg infantry platoon, what happens to the gtg status of the infantry platoon? Does it loose its gtg status? If not, how do you resolve shooting modifiers?

Movement Step :
- What is a Movement Step ? The charge and the stormtrooper move, for example, are a movement step ?
Movement step is as outlined on pages 14-25. Stormtrooper rules are on page 136 of the mini rule book. (Wayne)
There is only one Movement Step in a turn, and it isn't the Assault Step. You can only dismount in the Movement Step unless explicitly allowed by another rule. (Phil)

Warriors :
- P56 If you destroy a warrior team, you roll a die:
On a 4+ you killed the warrior and the team is destroyed
Otherwise, owning player may designate another friendly team of the same type that is within command distance of the warrior to take over as the new warrior. Ok, what happens if I don't roll a 4+ and there is no friendly team of the same type within command distance? Does the Warrior become one of the walking dead ?
The warrior survives, but isolated and alone, they stagger to the rear looking for the rest of their unit. (Phil)

Mine and demolition :
- What is the dimension of a minefield when constructed during the game?
- I can't seem to find any mention of what pioneers/engineers do except act as Tank Assault 4 troops. This is of course awesome, but I couldn't find anything about mine laying/clearing or bridge building/demolition etc. ?

AAMG :
- An AAMG is a vehicle MG (ROF3, range 16", FP6+) that can also be fired skywards ?
- AA MG's can fire while pinned (at full ROF on armored vehicles, ROF 1 on unarmored vehicles), or is it simply an omission, and the old v.1 rule is still in effect?

Halftrack :
- German half-track rules - Rear AA Mount special rule - does that mean passenger-fired AAMG facing the rear fire arc (and can't fire to the front)? [I think it does, but not sure.]

Mounted assault :
- The mounted assault rules (p.137 mini-rulebook) state that "In the first Assault Combat Round, one infantry team carried as a a passenger in each Transport team may fight as itf it was a Tank team".
Does the "first Assault Combat Round" include the first counterattacK? Thus causign a tank terror test?
Note, regardless of whether the passengers are Tank teams or not (and the intention was that they aren't) they certainly aren't 'Armoured Tank teams' or 'Fully-armoured Tank teams' as required by the two rules mentioned above.
The Mounted Assault does not require the enemy to test motivation to counterattack if they do not hit, and falls back if pinned down by defensive fire.(Phil)

Charge :
- What constitutes a successful Charge Into Contact ?

Charge and dismount :
- The charge is a Movement step ? So Can I move my transport and dismount for a charge ?
There is only one Movement Step in a turn, and it isn't the Assault Step. You can only dismount in the Movement Step unless explicitly allowed by another rule. (Phil)
Charge and dismount: is not a movement step it is part of the assault step. See transport in assaults page 72 and German special rule Mounted Assault on page 137 of the mini rule book.(Wayne)

Breakoff :
- page 88 Break Off - "Teams must remain in Command..." What happens to leaderless platoons that must Break Off. How do they move, if they can? Also applies to Carry On Sergeant, which allows you to move if leaderless.

Seek Strike Destroy
- page 133 - Seek Strike Destroy - the wording for placing the TD's now includes the word "all". Does this mean all TD's must be placed at the same time, or can you still choose to place one, some, or all during the turn?

Attachments :
- page 146 - Attachments. Are attachments from weapons platoons by team or squad/section? Are attachments from Company HQ by team or squad/section?

Artillery Staff and Observer :
- Artillery Staff are now labeled Rifle teams but in the armory are listed as unable to fire.
Observers are now also labeled as rifle teams but are not listed in the armory at all.
Why are Staff labeled as rifle teams if they cannot fire? Are Observer Rifle teams able to fire ?

Tankodesantniki :
- the tanko special rule states that hits have to be assigned to the tanko's before the tanks they're riding ?
Only in assault combat, not in any form of shooting, including defensive fire.(Phil)
- Question about the "Ignore Destroyed Tankodesantniki SMG teams when determining whether a Tankovy Company is below half strength and needs to take a Platoon Morale Check":
Does that mean we can count active tanko teams towards company strength. Example - 10 T34's with 10 tankos - Company strength is 20? Your half strength would be 10 and since tankos don't count you have to lose all ten tanks to be a half strength? Or do they mean if I lose 4 tanks/tankos then it's 6 active/4 destroyed not 6 active/8 destroyed. In which case why not say to ignore the tankos completely when determining below half strength?
The definition of below half strength is more teams destroyed than still fighting.
If you lose all of your tanks and none of your desantniki (due to a freak set of diesel fires?), you have 10 destroyed and 10 fighting, so you are OK.
If you lose five tanks and their desantniki (more likely), you have 5 teams destroyed (ignoring desantniki) and 10 still fighting, so you are fine.
If you lose seven tanks and their riders, you have seven teams destroyed and six still fighting, so you are below half strength. (Phil)

- What happens to TDs on bogged/bailed tanks? Can they still fight in assaults and/or shoot their SMGs?
- Can TDs fire defensive fire when their "host" tanks are assaulted?
- Can a tank purchase more than one team of TDs (as the rules seem to imply), and if that is the case, what are the changes to the rules aside from the 3+ save going to 5+?
- I just don't remember if the rules address this one - do TD casualties impact Morale in any way?
- Do TDs ignore Pins from enemy shooting (as opposed to defensive fire)?
- Can the Tank Rider platoon be split up and allocated to different tank platoons as riders ? How can they do this and still stay in command ?
- Are they some form of combat attachment where platoons are allocated to tank platoons and operate with them.

Aircraft :
- Is air support a divisional support choice or is it like LFTF 3 where it did not count vs your support platoon choice?
- In Ostfront, the Aircraft section of the arsenals show a multi-weapon plane can use one OR the other--for example, look at p. 190, BF 109E of FW 190F can take Cannon OR Bombs.
In Afrika, no such distinction is made--for example, look at p. 204 where the same planes have both weapons listed without the "or" in between.
The M-MRB does not clarify which one is right, and Afrika COULD be interpreted as saying BOTH/ALL.

- he use of the P47 Thunderbolt as a "common attack aircraft" example on p.122 of the M-MRB. This is not a plane choice in Mid war (nor is the Typhoon for that matter). I assume that this chart is for illumination only, or is there some points difference? PErsonally, I prefer the auto kill of the P47 bombs to the "don't bog the bomb" roll of the P40 and P38.
And speaking of the P-38, all you kiddies now have a prime example of why you DO NOT rely exclusively on a spell checker to proof your work.
Afrika, p. 174 under US Air Support
Lightening--to make light or clear
Lightning--discharge of atmospheric electricity, (with potentially harmful or fatal effects)

- My opponent gets aircraft and positions them to destroy a couple harmless little jeeps that I SWEAR aren't spotters for my m-10's. Then he has a tank fire at the jeeps as well to make sure they die. I of course disengage (ok, so they WERE spotters for my M-10's. Anyone else get a kick out of German players being more afraid of jeeps than tanks?) and move 12 inches away, placing me out of the aiming zone for the aircraft. The aircraft, which had been 6 inches away from the back of the jeeps to keep out of the friendly fire zone pick a new target within 4" as they're allowed to do. The new target is 4" closer to friendly troops than the jeeps were.
So here's the question: When you pick a new target for the aircraft, do you have to reposition them and recheck for distance to friendlies? Common sense (to me) says "yes". The rules don't say you have to, therefore there's a strong case for saying "No".
No. The rules say nothing about repositioning the aircrft. They remain where they are. (Phil)

Artillery :
- In V1, all Gun Teams could fire as R/MG Teams. The main exception being the Russians. In V2, without this rule, most mortar Teams cannot defend themselves at all in Defensive Fire. (?)

Protected ammo :
- German tanks get THREE chances to unbail ??? Are german tank crews going to have three chances to unbail per turn. By my reading, a bailed German tank crew fails it unbail motivation check, but, they have protected ammo and immediately get a second roll correct? Now, assuming they also fail this roll, and General Rommel happens to be in the force and in LOS of the bailed crew allows them to re-roll failed motivation checks. So, the question is do these checks stack thus giving the German bailed tank team three attempts to unbail or do the two extra attempts cancel each other out and they still only get two tries? I won't even speculate that by a strict reading of the rules they could possibly have four attempts.
The special rule Protected Ammo gives you a re-roll. This overrides the normal rule that does'nt give anyone rerolls to remount a bailed out vehicle.However, it does nowhere does it say anything that overrides the rule that you may only have one reroll.
All of the rules allowing rerolls say something to the effect of "you may reroll this roll". No matter how many rules say "you may reroll roll X", you may still only reroll roll X once unless some other rule says you may reroll it more than once. The only rule that says this is the Komissar rule.
If you argue to the contrary, then all rerolls could be rerolled, and the rule on page three would be unnecessary! (Phil)

Missions :
- Roadblock mission is difficult to understand. It should be made clearer that an infantry force is ambushing an enemy motorised column that is advancing down a road (?)

AFRIKA
British :
- Arty Major (staff team) goes over & takes charge of a rifle platoon, and charges the enemy ?
However, since he is not a 2iC, Company, or higher Command team, he cannot take over a platoon. (Phil)

- British HQ Platoon
My British Infantry company has two 3” mortars and two Bofors on truck. Reading the rules on 146 of the little book it appears I cannot have the 2inC look after these guys during a battle. It looks like I’ll be forced to attach these to a combat or weapons platoon if they what to be useful in the game.
British doctrine was to have these teams for a platoon known as HQ platoon. With the rules as written I can’t do this. Likewise the CS tanks in my tank squadron cannot be commanded by anyone unless they join one of the combat platoons. Maybe you should have assigned the HQ platoon a platoon commander (or make one of the teams the commander?) ?
Check out page 146 for your mortars. They form a leaderless platoon that your 2iC can join as needed to move form place to place.(Phil)
Yeah but if some-one shoots at them he can't join them because they are not the same "type" see pg 31 ?

- Pg 140, where the "Tally Ho!" rule it's described, it's said that "the 2pdr and 6pdr guns..." But in the Afrika briefing, there's just one Tank with the Tally Ho! characteristic, the Crusader II and its 2pdr tank gun.
What about Crusader III? Is this some kind of errata?
We were generous to the Crusader III before. The Crusader III lost a crewmember to fit the 6 pdr in the turret. The problem was that it is difficult to come up with an effective way of modelling ROF 1.5, so we left it at 2 when we gave it Tally Ho.
More information led to the conclusion that the Crusader III was issued with the later types of ammunition earlier than we previously believed, but that they operated in a more cautious manner than their predecessors. Hence the loss of Tally Ho and the greater AT rating. However, their ROF remains where it should be, 2. (Phil)

- Death or Glory Squardon tank costs page 133: All seem to be incorrect when compared to the expected values, especially as the Valentine III is now identical to the Valentine II (see below for Valentine issue).
2x ValIII DoG=155, expected (100x1.3)=130
Crusader IICS DoG=70, expected (50x1.3)=65
3xValIII DoG=225, expected (150x1.3)=195
3xLee DoG=360, expected (300x1.3)=390
3xCrusaderIII DoG=205, expected (170x1.3)=220

- The British Rifle Company can take organic AA in the form of Oerlikon 20mm Portee's.
The British Motor Company and the British Armoured Car Squadron can take AA support in the form of Breda 20mm Portee's.
However "Portee" has a specific meaning in the rules now, and these vehicles are neither "Portees" nor get the "Tip and Run" special rule.

- page 102 - Pip Robers - upgrade to Sherman is +10 points, not the usual +20.

- page 127 - Artillery HQ commander - what good is he ?

- In V1 DR motor companies could take A single Piat and still take sticky bombs while the Brit rifle teams from FK&C had to choose Piats OR sticky bombs but could have a Piat per platoon I noticed during a game last night that the rule from DR is gone from V2 and a cut and paste from FK&C was placed in the Motor Company section of Africa. Is this a change or an error? Should it be the way it was in V1 ?

- Where's the SAS and LRDG ?

United States :
-If a M3A1's passengers dismount the LMG's is the vehicle considered "empty" and forced to withdraw, or does it stay while the crew fires the .50 cal in support?
The crew have elected to form a static defensive machine-gun nest, so they send their transport away. They dismount with their carbines during mobile operations.(Phil)
- The AI Assault Debate seemed to indicate that you could dismount one team to assault while the other stayed in the 'track to fire the passenger-fired MG in support, so I assume the same applies here. So, one passenger dismounts one LMG, the second passenger stays in the car to fire the other LMG, and the crew fires the .50 cal.
The recon only have one passenger per armoured car. There is nothing requiring the transport to be removed unless its machine-guns are dismounted. (Phil)
- What happens if they have to/choose to Disengage? Can they remount?
They only have a vehicle to remount if they did not dismount the LMG. If so, they can remount in their next Movement Step. (Phil)
- Does the dismounted team abandon the LMG and remount with just their carbines?
If they dismounted the LMG, they have nothing to remount. (Phil)
- Does the onboard crew and the remaining passenger team just drive off and abandon the poor LMG team entirely?
There is no remaining passenger team in an armoured car. Since a half-track only has one MG, if the MG dismounted, the half-track drives off. If someone stays in it, well...(Phil)
- However, if they don't dismount the LMG's and just get out with their carbines for Phil's "mobile operations", does the M3A1 leave?
No. There is no rule requiring them to leave while they have their MG's still mounted. (Phil)

German :
- A German Company Comander (CC) or 2iC that has purchased as part of the HQ upgrades, an AT Rifle team (or bazookas or whatever depending on the army).
Now, the CC/2iC is deployed withing command range of this AT rifle team as well as another seperate infantry platoon. The CC/2iC is shot at...what happens?
CC/2iC is independent so must join a nearby platoon. Is he considered to be part of a platoon already (the AT Rifle being the only team of said platoon) or does the CC/2iC plus AT Rifle join the nearby infantry unit during the shooting step?
The AT Rifle is a leaderless platoon. The 2iC can choose which platoon to join. (Phil)

- Weapon Platoons: you may have an Assualt Platoon. But an Assault platoon is not listed in the book. Do we use the one from OstFront, costings and rules - or is this an error and there should not be an Assault Platoon avialble as a Weapon Platooon?

- Divisional Support: Assault Guns
I notice the Stug F's have been amended with the correct Stug F/8
However the points are 305 for 2 or 406 for three. Which is the old price for Stug Fs, on consulting the Ostfront Book the Stug F/8 are costed as the old price i.e. 355 for two. (i did not check if the stats had changed)

- Marder IIs were used in Tunisia. Where are they? This book only has them available for the FJs in Sicily and Italy. Likewise, Elephants supported the FJs in Italy...are they not appearing until Late War?

- The Afrika book only has the Marder III 7.62 variant available for the Sicily/Italy front in the Tank-hunter Platoon, but the other Marder III variants such as the H and M models were also present at those locations as well.
Currently, those variants can only be found in Ostfront, and I don't think you're allowed to mix units in different books.

- I would really like someone to enlighten me as to how the FJ Light Artillery Battery is worth its points (?)
FJ Light Artillery Battery (4x 7.5cm GebG36 guns) 315 points
Afrika page 54
Heer Artillery Battery (4x 7.5cm GebG36 option) 140 points!
Afrika page 57
Heer Artillery Battery (4x 10.5cm leFH18) 220 points
Afrika page 57

I realize that the FJ are Fearless and that they have the option of swapping in the 10.cm LG40, but looking at the two Heer examples I still cannot see how 315 points is reasonable.

- page p27 - Panzers. If using the Tunisia/Sicily/Italy list, are you restricted to certain models of panzers like 10th PD is?

- page 30 - Pioneer platoon. The HQ has a schwimwagon. Is this correct, and if so, what are that stats?

- page 37 - Armored Hvy Pltn - cannot make attachments?

- page 39 - Recon Hvy Plnt - cannot make attachments ?

- Sd Kfz 7/2 cost different points depending where you buy them in the Ostfront book. If you buy 7/2 from Page 31 as a Support Platoon
2 will cost you 110, 3 will cost you 165
HOWEVER if you buy 7/2 as a Support Platoon from Page 66
1 + Leader will cost you 60 points
2 will cost you 100, 3 will cost you 155 (+ you get a "free" leader)
Result, Why would you ever buy 7/2 from the Panzercompanies Support list ?
Similar, if you consider taking the Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) from the Anti-Aircraft Platoon (pg. 30) it costs 165 for 3 or 110 for 2, while in the Motorised Light Anti-Aircraft Platoon (pg. 31) they cost 150 points for 3 or 100 for 2.(?)

Italian :
- Under the new Afrika book in the Italian arsenal under equipment and notes it lists the Lancia da 90/53 as anti aircraft am i correct in assuming this means they get the full rate of fire versus aircraft? The gun version lists heavy anti-aircraft restricting rate to 1

OSTFRONT
Soviet :
- How the heck can Cossacks be mechanized in V.2 when panzergrenadiers in trucks are infantry? Since when does horse flesh equal the protection of an armored halftrack?
If you make them defend in all the attack/defence games they lose the benefit of being mounted, as they are dug in and their horses are sent to the rear.(Wayne]
- - Strelk support option lists a tankovy company. Go to page 165, where it specifies that this supporting tankovy company uses the listing from page 140. Fine and dandy - EXCEPT that the tankovy listing has only medium tanks. No lights, and no heavies. So no KV1e's or light tanks, KV!s's only available as Guards Heavy Tanks.
Yes of course there is still Tankovy support for Strelkovy Batalons.
Look at the Tankovy options on pages 140 to 141 or if an early 42 army T-26s or KV-1e or KV-1s from page 144. Not the entry in the Strekovy says Tankovy (not specifically Heavy, Medium or Light).
Plus Guards Heavy tanks are available from Divisional Support. (Wayne)

- page 157. Cossack Regimental Gun Company. Upgrading it to 45mm obr 1937 guns translates into 170 points for 4 guns, while upgrading it to 45mm obr 1942 guns translates into 200 points for 4 guns. Meanwhile, in a Guards Cossack list taking a Corps Support Tank Destruction company would make you pay 130 points for 4 45mm obr 1937 guns and 155 points for 4 45mm obr 1942 guns - which would have the exact same rating as the Guards Cossack Regimental Gun Company (Fearless Trained). In other words, you're paying 40-45 points to make a support platoon into a weapons platoon (and to get Horse Artillery rules instead of truck transport). Is this correct ?
- pg.159 under the support companys it list Divsional Support companies and Tankovy Company as support for Strelkovy Batalon.
First there is no Divsional Support companies ( maybe Corps support)
and second what type of Tankovy companys do they mean Light,Med, or Heavy( the refrence is only to page 140) and if its only med tankovy company can the Strelkovy Batalon take the t-34/57 upgrade?
- Can I choose an Artillery Battalion with a Tankovy Batalon now? Because (p.166 Ostfront) they are counted as Corps Support.
- Apparently the soviet scouts used to be able to fire either rifles or SMGs as required (they carried both?)... did this carry over the V2 or do they have to choose a gun and stick with it now?
- Looking in the Cossack list, a "Tankovy Company" can be used as a support choice. This includes the T-26, right? Or is that tank restricted to the Mixed Tankovy Batalon and Strelkovy support.

German :

- Page 41 - Aufklarungsschwadron.
As a Weapons platoon there is a listing for a Pioneer Platoon as a Weapon platoon, but it is defined in the text on page 42 as a Panzer Pioneer platoon as per page 39. Bad editing that needs correction.
As a support platoon it states that you can take a Panzer Pioneer platoon. Is this the same Panzer Pioneer Platoon as the weapons choice (page 39) or is it the Panzer Pioneer Platoon from the Panzer Pioneer Company (page 43)?
The distinction is important because the one on page 43 can take Stuka Zu Foss, whereas the one on page 39 cannot.

- Where is the axis cavalry support ?

Romanian :
- Why Romanian 38(t) are listed as unreliable ? The 38(t) was renowned for being ultra reliable and the Romanians got a lot of 38(t)s as well as spare part.
Second hand pieces of crap that had already been used to invade at least three countries. Of the 50 initially only 5 could be made to run when they got them. They had already been rejected by the Hungarians! (Wayne)

Designer's notes :
What is interesting is that what was originally intended as a simplification has become an oddity. No one noticed this in the whole 2nd edition process.
Over time we have moved away from the very basic platoon vs platoon shooting to the team vs platoon concept which resolves a lot of silly situations. I didn't realise this original formulation was still there.
We have long played the way most people here seem to, that is, roll to hit seperately with teams at long and short range, and then roll saves seperately depending on the range of the team scoring the hit.
Now by the wording of the rules, this isn't correct, but it certainly makes more sense and is how almost everyone has played the game.(Phil)

[Nagash]

La biblia...

Bueno, deciros que mi ejército italiano no tiene tanques, así que me he librado!!!! (los semoventes 90 no se consideran tanques, son latas de hojalata muy pesadas y con un cañón largo), nada, la solución es fácil: seguir usando la 1º versión de las reglas.

[DemonioVolador]

los semvoentes suben muchisimo tmb....es el timo del siglo señores...Es una opcion eso de seguir usando la primera, pero solo se podria usar para pachangas por que dudo que haya torneos de primera edicion

[Blakmetal]

Han subido especialmente: Lancia 90, éste ya paso de usarlo, las versioens remolcada, aún siendo caras también, me parecen mas prácticas.
Los carros de combate M14, ésto si que es una putada, no son muy allá, pero se jsutifican en que usados en plan horda eran la leche con tanta MG. ME parecen muy caros ahora para lo que son.
L6, éste a pesar de ser más caro el pequeño incremento de blindaje marcará la diferencia, hacerme caso.
El Semovente 75 creo que es más barato, la mejor baza para mis bersaglieri.
La artillería algo ha bajado, pensar que son siemrpe veteran, asi que normal que poco. Me planteo usar dos baterías a 1500 puntos.

[ce]

Va a ser que voy a esperar a pillarme los libros de frente a que hagan la segunda edicción de ellos, que eso son muchas erratas.


AVISO A NAVEGANTES: Si os parece una mierda de libros, segir jugando con la v1, PERO A TODO, incluso convencer a los organizadores de torneos de que sigan con ella. Si se coscan que nadie juega con la v2, se pondran las pilas y arreglaran lo que haga falta, que para el cliente tiene la razon.

Ya paso esto con una edicción de blood bowl que fue un truño inmenso y se nego la gente a jugar, GW (si y encima era GW ) no tardo en sacar el LBR 2.0 ni seis meses creo recordar, ademas de gratis bajada de su pagina de juego de especialistas ( , repito es GW)

[Giuliano]

Una de las principales putadas es que nos quitan que los 47mm, los rifles antitanke y los 65mm sean infanteria por lo que pierden el +3 de salvacion. Ademas podrian haberle puesto tankes ligeros a los L6/40, joder y por lo menos una lista nueva.
Como cosa buena, los bersaglieri son ahora infantery company y pueden llevar francotirador.
por cierto como se usa ahora la seccion de trasporte del company support.

Salute.

[Panther]

Yo me uno a las mociones¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
1º a la le italianinis,que tengo el army y creo que ahora ya no seran 1500 pts juastos.....
2º y peor ,como ya comente en otro post,los libros,¡¡¡¡PEAZO PUTADAAAAAA¡¡¡¡¡¡
75 LERUS ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡Para que acabe pareciendose a unos albunes de cromos,con "pegar" tantas herratas..................
CHORISOSSSSSSSSSSS¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ :?
Que los reediten,corrijan y que nos los descambien,es lo justo¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
MOTINNNNNNNNN¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
Dos o rtres eerores son eceptables,pero tener que modificar practicamente la totalidad de las listas de una compra de un producto nuevo,me parece un robo y un atraco a mano armada¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
pdta:
Sergio,no te desalientes apañero..................

[DemonioVolador]

Yo me espero que tomen cartas en el asunto, o que saquen el mismo libro con todo perfecto y que nos los cambien por la chufa que tenemos. O que nos devuelvan el dinero, o que hagan algo....todo menos eso de poner erratas en la wep para que nosotros los pegemos al libro...paso de hacerlo...mira tu si me voy aponer a descargar, cortar y pegar cosas a un libro por que ellos no han podido pegarle un repasito rapido antes de publicarlo....

[Panther]

Estoy completamente de acuerdo contigo,Demonio.
UNA SOLUCION QUIEROOOOOOOO¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
Ups,no se por que pero esta ultima frase me ha recordado a una marca de detergente,........... ,XD

[Giuliano]

Este post no se referia a las errats sino a como han dejado al ejercito italiano, si ademas sea una errata lo del apoyo aereo nos joden.

Saludos.

[Panther]

Perdona Giulano,tienes toda la razon del mundo,pero como estoy tan indignado con este tema y como me imagino que todo el que a acoquinado 70 pavos y esta jodido,aprovecho toda oportunidad para reivindicar mi queja,cosa que por otro lado opino que todos los interesados en este "nuestro" juego deberiamos hacer.
El que no llora no mama....................
No obstante,perdona si lo escrito te molesto,saludos :?

[akkeko]

no se que es peor, que sean erratas o que no lo sean. por lo que he visto x ay, van a sacar uns pdf con las erratas corregidas, pero no han dicho cuales. . y si alomejor todas esas cosas que ya no coinciden con el libro anterior no son erratas?¿?¿?, si no actualizaciones. habra subidas y bajadas de puntos, blindage, AT, etc.. De momento habra que dar el beneficio de la duda. y si luego se confirma que todo lo que se ha mencionado como posible errata lo es, pues habra que sublebarse. pero si esta correcto, nos guste o no tendremos que tirar con lo que ay. no quiero criticar los comentarios de aqui, es un punto de vista distinto. que conste que ya me he pillado los dos libros(70 leurillos ), asi que yo soy un damnificado. un saludo...